[Music]
welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Galloway and me day three
it's a moot point whether president
macron or president Trump will tumble
into the 20% of public approval first
the French Tony Blair hit the barn door
of defeating marine lepen easily enough
after both the French Conservative Party
and the French Labour Party failed to
make the final runoff but it's been 100
days since he was the main man who came
from nowhere and who created a party out
of nothing I am here the future not just
for France but for all of us the
collapse into centrism or as some might
put it into the void help us with that
then dr. Russell Foster of King's
College London our man for all things
European welcome back dr. Russell macron
36 percent in the polls and falling is
he a dead duck or is this something that
must be expected this early well to
understand microns slide in the polls I
think it's first of all important to
understand the context in which Makran
emerged as you pointed out the collapse
of the two mainstream parties which was
similar to what we saw in the Italian
referendum in December and the Dutch
election earlier this year macron
emerged as a centrist candidate who was
able to create an image of appealing
across the political spectrum very
similar to marine lepen
now because Makran came from such a
young party with no experience it seemed
inevitable that sooner or later his
honeymoon period with the French
electorate would end and as we've seen
in the last six weeks his approval
ratings have taken quite a plummet of
dropping 10 to 12 points in the space of
just over a month now a significant
cause of this is that macron in my
opinion did not win because he was the
choice of the French people he wouldn't
because he was the lesser of two evils
running against the front Nacional
you'll recall that during the campaign
the supporters of jean-luc mélenchon and
Benoit Hammond were chanting a little
sleep a slogan that was little seen in
the British press there was navantia
near ceased we want neither a banker nor
a racist and so for many of the French
electorate macron was a preferable
choice to the front nasiha now now that
he's quite brutally defeated to the
front Nationale in the presidential
elections and the National Assembly
elections his honeymoon period does seem
to be coming to an end
however he has accomplished quite a lot
in that time which can give us some
indication of the sort of presidency
that Makran is going to operate for the
next few years
tell me first though I expected him to
win the presidency in the brutal way
that he did I didn't expect him to win
the parliamentary elections as
convincing after all he was actually
leading a party that prior to that had
not even existed this is a something
that none of us expected so the only
precedent we had for a presidential
runoff between the front nacional and
another party was the 2002 election in
which Jacques Chirac wiped the floor
with Sean marine lepen so it seems that
the very toxicity are from Nacional
meant that macron was going to win by
default but like you I thought that by
the time of the National Assembly
elections we would see the front
Nacional making quite significant
inroads along with the supporters of
himand socialists and melon Sean what is
surprising is that on Marsh which as you
pointed out came out of nowhere has won
quite a staggering victory in the
National Assembly now I think a lot of
this is to do with Francis
dissatisfaction at a string of
governments and presidents who are who
have appeared less and less capable of
uniting the various factions of France
we saw that Sarkozy was charming and
charismatic but mired in sleaze we saw
that Francois Hollande was well-meaning
but quite weak and ended up with the
lowest approval ratings in the fifth
republics history so a large part of his
of macrons nationalism
victory is due to the French people
wanting a stable president and a stable
national assembly which can pass the
legislation which France so badly needs
also a lot of this has to do with the
manner in which macron is running his
own party more and more he is appearing
as quite a monarchical leader of all
Marche the 478 candidates that he put
forward for all Marche in the
parliamentary elections were hand-picked
by him rather than in internal elections
like the other parties so he's been able
to maneuver the right people into the
right seats and let's not forget that
macron as much as he's new to politics
he is demonstrated in the campaign and
in the last hundred days that he is very
very clever at playing the French
political system and picking candidates
not standing for much sounds a bit Tony
Blair this is why I think his approval
is starting to slip a little bit
he appeared as Frances Saviour as
Europe's Savior at a moment when it
seemed that French politics were a
choice between the failed establishment
and what used to be a hard right party
vote has now just become a generic
anti-foreigner party so he was able to
appeal to people who wanted something
stable something mainstream but as he
point out the fact that he's appealing
quite broadly means that he's not
actually satisfying much of the
electoral wider centimeter deep
precisely so some of his strategies that
we saw in the early days of his
presidency such as reaching out to the
other parties in order to appoint top
cabinet positions these were politically
very very intelligent moves in order to
try and unite the disparate factions of
France however what he cannot get past
is the fact that in the first round of
the French elections three-quarters of
the French electorate voted against him
because they didn't want him and now
with marine lepen thrown under the bus
by her own party and no real opposition
leaders to macron he is now becoming a
figurehead a symbolic figure for the
French people to invest their continuing
dissatisfaction in well the the big
surprise for me
if you think about that presidential
vote melon Shawn got 20% so if he'd got
just a few percent more would have been
him up against marine lepen would have
been Tony Benn + versus marine lepen
that would have been an election worth
going across to work in he did very
poorly in the parliamentary elections it
seems as if he was a figure but the
people didn't Francie is party much
there could be a connection here between
what we've seen in the United Kingdom
over brexit and what we saw in the
Netherlands over there election that in
the early stages this was politically
highly polarized with people demonizing
the other side but now that a decision
has been made we may be seeing in France
the same who's who saw in Britain with
the adamant remain as accepting the
decision in the Netherlands with the
adamant builders supporters now giving
their tacit support to a government
which is still akattak and formed one
yet so it could simply be this case that
they that they ham owned a melon Shan
supporters acknowledged that they've
lost and it makes more sense to get
behind a moderate centrist like macron
rather than to continue making
difficulties because making difficulties
in the national assembly is going to
benefit one group alone and that's the
front Nacional because they are very
much a minority now like a builder's
party yeah like the hard core of you
Cape which still exists they are now in
the very advantageous position that they
can sit back and snipe at every one of
macrons intended reforms and policies
without themselves having to take any
blame
so macrons
success in the parliamentary elections
could turn out to be a hindrance for him
further down the line and that there
will be a vocal minority in the National
Assembly the buck stops with him exactly
and they can just sit back and say
essentially we told you so what's
happened to the front national it's
imploded essentially because marine
lepen
made this such a personal party it was
focused very much around the figure of
the leader around marine lepen she is
now discredited
because she failed to to get through in
the second round of the elections and so
her niece has essentially pushed her out
of the party
so the from nacional is a little bit
like you Kip at the moment was a bit
like the Borgias down her own father
turned on her we see this a lot in
French politics this dynastic politics
it's almost Miliband dish and it's quite
ironic that macrons University thesis as
a student was on Machiavelli's so that
seems to know quite well how well if I
know tell us in closing what are the
main things that macaron has done in his
first hundred days and what's he likely
to do next well he's had successes and
failures so his successors have been
reaching out to other parties in order
to unite them into a Coalition of the
Willing he has had some defeat while not
defeats but difficult moments the most
emphatic one was the resignation of
general de Villiers as the chief of
staff at the French military because of
macrons proposals for a 650 million euro
reduction to the military budget and
we're also seeing a difficult Foreign
Relations emerging between macron Trump
and next month we're going to see
difficulties with him in Germany
macrons big test is going to be in the
next three months over the summer it's
generally quiet in Western European
politics next month we're going to see
the beginning of the protests and the
inevitable riots against his proposed
labor reforms which will make it easy at
a higher people but make it easier to
fire people as well so we're going to
see a lot of protests against that and
we're going to see macron dealing with
whatever has been the outcome of the
German election to see whether his
intended proposals for European reform
are going to be carried through on a
franco-german coalition or whether
they're going to fall at the first
hurdle so not necessarily rose petals in
front of him could be a long hot winter
actually of labour discontent and nobody
does labour our discontent like the
French
the French have a rare gift for
demonstrating public dissatisfaction and
in a car in a country with rising
unemployment with difficult domestic
political situations macron is going to
be faced with some very difficult times
just as well they've got rid of all
those cobblestones in the streets of
Paris your students are lucky to have
you well foster thanks for joining us on
the sputnik thank you after the break as
the u.s. begins to fall apart at the
racial seams
what is next on the front line between
Russia and the USA stay tuned welcome
back to Sputnik at the time of making
this recording Donald Trump is still
President of the United States but he
may not be much longer as his deep state
enemies swarm around him Donald Trump
made a potentially fatal error over
Charlottesville it may have achieved a
critical mass of disapproval that's this
internal crisis make the u.s. less
dangerous to the rest of the world or
more dangerous joining us to discuss it
is dr. Thomas Pearson ik a writer on
Artie's op edge and editor of the London
progressive journal and also a junior
hospital doctor who's just come off
shift after just a couple of hours sleep
that you won't be able to tell doctor
thanks for squeezing us into your
extremely busy professional life many
people think that the complete mayhem in
Washington where nobody seems to stay in
their job for more than five minutes
well the president sometimes appears to
be ready to fire himself all of these
tax as if he wants to be fired and
everyone stabbing each other in the back
the party system has collapsed many
people think that's good because they
won't be able to pay much attention to
the rest of us that's not necessarily
true is it you're right George thank you
about me on the show why should it be
here I'm you're absolutely right the
u.s. is an empire in decline it's a slow
decline but nevertheless it isn't
decline and actually like a like a
cornered animal it's most dangerous when
it's cornered and I mean the US is going
down but the problem is it might take
some all the world with it well that I
mean you meet that almost as a quip but
it's true over North Korea yeah if if
Donald Trump like dr. Strangelove claims
astride a nuclear bomb and wearing a
cowboy hat descends shouting we on his
way into Pyongyang Russia and China will
will respond in in a nuclear way they're
bound to if you fire a nuclear weapon at
their next-door neighbor there's only
one way that that can end and it's not
actually all that fantastical is it
absolutely not and it's not just Russia
and China that reported North Korea
South Korea Seoul where the which is the
u.s. Li and it's also pushing for war
with North Korea they would also be
obliterated the Seoul the capital of
South Korea is only about a hundred
miles from the earth yes Korean South
you all forget that so if anyone comes
bombed North Korea North Korea could be
there an afternoon mmm precisely and
North Korea will no doubt she'll South
Korea over artillery and bomb them also
very bomb any nuclear bomb is dropped in
North Korea South Korea goes up in
flames
part of parts of China and Russia
bordering North Korea will stir Goffin
flames I mean to put it like that you'd
think that can't possibly happen but
Trump is proving that anything is
possible isn't he absolutely and it's
not just in North Korea where the
problems are occurring no I've seen on
escalations in Syria Ukraine I mean Adam
if leaders all started under Obama but I
think the u.s. is exclusive power and
it's desperately trying to hold on it's
desperately trying to hold on to power
and behave me more more irrationally and
more ethically but sometimes it's make
the point that he was not going into
this foreign adventures like his
predecessors that's true he actually
held back and he some being quite
reluctant to arm to give offensive
weapons to the Ukrainian government he's
also mentioned recently there's going to
pull back on Armenian the moderates or
slightly slightly us moderate nicest
terrorists in Syria however the problem
is some Trump is himself he has a hands
tied but a deep state the the media the
intelligence organizations the power of
the M of the of the Congress and Senate
they are pushing into war if you think
for example when when we had that went
from female Saucony bombed the air base
in Syria after the alleged attack
chemical attack of a shake on it shake
can't shake hoon doesn't know evidence
of course for that but nevertheless
trump him order a tomahawk strike
against them over dinner with the
Chinese President yeah he even told us
what he was eating when he gave the when
he pressed the button that's right thing
you've referred to it's after dinner
entertainment yes though several people
lost their lives civilians and Syrian
soldiers like but of course it's
different because after in the death he
went out he went up in this theme of the
Democrats you end up and he's steamin
liberals they're very liberals who are
criticizing him for homophobia misogyny
all alike suddenly thought hey this is a
good guy he's doing exactly what Clinton
would have done what Obama did this
dichotomy is mystifying the deep state
is busily devouring him there are little
alike piranha fish devouring him and yet
he continues to do the things that they
want him to do presumably in the forlorn
hope that they'll stop eating him but
he's already too too far eaten it seems
to me why doesn't he do something
different instead I mean he could do but
I think he's trying to swing both ways
he's trying to um if you see if you did
something different you'll actually for
example said I'm making peace of Russia
I'm gonna develop it relations with
Russia I'm not gonna arm terrorists and
in Syria I'm not gonna support the
Ukrainian regime you could find yourself
impeached a lot faster no let's talk
about the Ukraine and then I want to ask
you about sanctions the the cool
government in Ukraine they are John
McCain and the president the
administration before this of President
Obama's
friends you're right Trump is less
willing it would appear to fight Russia
on the Ukrainian front but nonetheless
armed conflict still continues there and
it is one of the great flash points in
the world
this time there's a person conflicted on
bass the problem is portion called the
president he's in a difficult position
because the far-right fascist to help
him get the power they're pushing him
for war and totally they wants to total
obliteration genocide on people in
Thomas however portion connotes a
Ukrainian army is far too weak to defeat
them
the rebels who are now much better armed
and interesting enough allot the the
enforcement of Russian got a lot the
weapons from Ukraine and because they're
kind of soldiers many fled the
battlefield they left off the weapons
behind and those weapons in turn came
from NATO so the the rebels in eastern
actually arm down by NATO weapons they
now have metal weapons to fight back so
they can actually a Ukraine now and you
na me quite a bloody nose and actually
and Poconos if the invades again you
might be not only the end of the US but
the end of Ukraine
what's Ukraine well that's an
interesting point is Ukraine as a single
state viable in the long term or are
these regions that have more or less
declared themselves as independent
countries is that problem going to grow
can the Ukraine be reunited should it be
reunited possibly if it's real I said it
might be the reuniting might occur with
other reasons joined the Russia because
at the moment Ukraine's economies and
catters the civil rights couldn't Lee go
on that window you can be there's
posters up in Ukraine saying you can be
arrested and put prison for being quote
separatist and as opposed to saying cool
even phone numbers saying call this
number if you're if you see a separate
if you Leonora sir if you know
separatist
except for this is someone basically
who's against the regime so of course we
the media will in the Western media toss
not about Russia's so-called done human
rights abuses but I have not seen a
single report and recently at least
we're saying that you can get be
important person for several years for
criticizing the regime thank you know of
course there's more than one way to skin
a cat there's more than one way to have
a war quarantine economic sanctions are
themselves a kind of war there's no loss
of appetite on the part of Trump's us
for continuing to sanction Russia even
though it's damaging to the European
countries and particularly damaging to
Germany which has a crucial
parliamentary election coming up what
can you tell us about the state of the
sanctions war oh it's you
and the sanctions say I'm infected as
you mentioned you also affected on the
EU countries much more than a half
Russia America is not really affected
because it's too far too far away so
America doesn't care so much about
sanctions Russia actually since
essentially so put in place a few years
ago and they actually relied more on
domestic produce actually the Russian
farmers are benefited if a crush is
actually switch thwarted domestic
production and also it's may stronger
economic ties make strong economic ties
with the countries to these to the
Russia like China the EU has lost
billions however Germany in particular
there's lost billions that's why it's
number of junctions and Italian
politicians who are anti sanctions and
desperately campaigning and lobbying the
new parliament to cut the sanctions that
if you look at the North North stream
pipeline for example America actually
said that they're going to punish any EU
companies that collaborate with Russia
on building a pipeline so essentially it
shows how quickly miracle of thirst
allies so-called allies I'm the robust
well this is a part of German capital in
particular and indeed since the end of
the Second World War
for obvious reasons and more so since
the reunification of Germany it's kind
of no brainer that Germany can only
benefit from good relations with Russia
and the US are determined to spoil that
and it's amazing that Merkel has gone
along with it as far as she has in the
run-up to the elections that could begin
to be a real election issue couldn't she
might not win another term I think I'm
it depends also it depends on a couple
things one thing is do the leaders of
Germany and the other EU nations do they
love the people more than they hate
Russia or are they willing to go along
with sanctions at the detrimental that
people there are businesses if they do
they economies will collapse if I do
America's bidding their economies
collapse and Britain for example may I
mean depending whether are they managed
to push through or not whether if they
find a way around it Britain may well
have it for exit in 2019 so Britain
itself is gonna need some more meat to
make new friends and trade partners so
it's like if Britain had any sense that
would be making better
because Britain's going to have to look
for its own arrangements its own deals
with countries like Russia and others
look it's been marvelous having you back
and the fact that you've hardly been to
bed after a long shift is a junior
doctor makes your performance all the
more creditable thanks very much
Tomas for coming on the selection and
now it's your turn to tell us what you
think through the portals of social
media what's rattling Gayatri well we
had a good debate going on on the
question whether macaron and his
centrist party is actually the model for
Europe's future Steven Robertson says I
will be surprised if macaron is still in
power Christmas 2017 nevermind post
brexit Chewbacca says no thanks we had
this kind of nonsense 20 years ago when
Blair came into being France
ought to catch up otherwise they will
regret it but we also have you
Appenzeller saying he has a uniting and
healing power to refocus on our core
European values after World War Two and
we should all be proud of that well I'm
not sure what our core European values
after all are two but one shouldn't
underestimate macron any more than it
was correct to underestimate Tories well
the reason we're still talking about
tony blair is because he was really very
good at it and he won three elections
albeit losing a few million votes along
the way and if you manage to extract
from your mind the disaster of iraq and
so on you could say that for a while he
was a very successful act and so it was
an act that's a very key point and
macron is to enact but and that can go
for quite some time that's right in the
absence of a credible alternative act or
alternative force and that's what
surprised actually I'm very surprised
I'm surprised that the collapse of the
I'm surprised that the collapse of melon
Chong Wei came within an ace of being
the president of France and then his his
parliamentary election performance was
so poor its left macron in quite strong
position but of course he stands for
nothing like Blair stood for nothing and
ultimately that's got to get found out
so you'll definitely still be there at
Christmas 2017 in fact you'll definitely
serve out his whole term but I predict a
lot of trouble on the streets of France
over this winter house and stuff in
supermarkets they do it in a way that no
one else can do it that's right well
that's all the time we've got for the
tweets today which alas means that's the
end of the show but you can stay in
touch with us on Facebook Sputnik on
Russia Today or Twitter RT underscores
put Nick it's goodbye from me Gayathri
and for me George Galloway it's been
marvelous
you